Jenny Lewis holds a singular place in the world of indie music. As one of the first and most important female voices to emerge from the male-dominated genre of the early aughts — Lewis always carved a path for herself by producing songs through romantic storytelling. However, for a long time, it wasn’t exactly clear whose stories they had been or they connected to Lewis’ real life. Because until recently, Lewis was known for holding back in interviews and often didn’t divulge the meaning of her songs (see 2014 New York Times profile). This was particularly true when it came she had with her parents.
Throughout her earliest years, she grew up on the street, living in and out of hotel rooms, while her parents performed as a “Sonny-and-Cher-style lounge act” called Love’s Way. When her parents split, her dad left and her mother struggled to support the family. That burden soon fell to Lewis — who became the family ’ s backbone and rose to stardom as a child actor. It was just after her mother’s death in 2017 that Lewis revealed her mother was struggling as a heroin addict those years. The most recent album, On The Line, comes to terms with losing her mother as well as the conclusion of her 12-year relationship with her boyfriend Jonathan Rice. We spoke to Lewis about her loss, coming out on the other side of grief and what those song lyrics, finally, actually mean.
303: Thank you for taking the time to speak to me. I understand your new album On The Line deals with the death of your mom and a breakup. I had a similar experience of losing my mother and being with her at the hospital when she passed — so I really appreciated the album.
Jenny Lewis: Well thanks for sharing that with me. Being with someone in that state is psychedelic and so raw and romantic, isn’t it? I’ve never actually gone through that. My dad passed away, but I wasn’t there for this. So it was like such a crazy experience that is human, but really spiritual, you know?
303: Absolutely. In your Rolling Stone profile, you discuss the way you wrote down the things she would say when she was hallucinating in the hospital. Did any of these things make it into the record?
JL: Yeah [in] “Little White Dove” they’re very specific moments and then [some are] kind of embellished for the sake of poetry. She actually would call me “kitty “ and ” her majesty. ” And these t things that I was called by her . These were loving nicknames that embodied the spirit of what she couldnbecause she was in so much pain and medicated ’ t articulate. But this was this distilled thing, which I think language is so fascinating when people are passing into another reality.
303: Yeah that’s a time. Your songs are so personal but also feel as a work of fiction. How do you combine the two?
JL: Well, just going back to the reality versus a magical reality. I’m a fan of Mexican filmmaking — Birdman is an example of this — where you’re not certain where you are but there are anchors of reality, but it allows itself to become magical. In “Little White Dove” with the lyrics “All of the guardian angels in the door with their long white coats and their stethoscopes” there’s a magic but realistic element at play there. And therefore it’s really exciting, as a writer, to be in it and then kind of remove yourself from it.
303: What’s your writing process like?
JL: I’ve become more receptive to the note procedure, where it’s only fluid and constant. So I’m trying to write daily. I’m working on something all the time– a melody or a lyric. The less I try to identify it, the more freely it comes. And that doesn’t mean I don’t do homework because I do. I allow it come and then I just chip away at it to make, to tell the story. And some stories are more detailed than others, but I think the devil’s in the details. I want the dirt. I need the minutia … It always starts with a melody or a sense. But I feel like it s my job to present. I was speaking to a buddy of mine the other night [about] the importance of communication and clarity in communication. We re texting each other. We don’t understand the tone. I think it s exciting to create a very different thing that you can imagine.
Photo by Autumn de Wilde.
303: I know this record is a breakup and about grief — but it doesn’t sound that way. Is that only a musical choice or does it connect that you also state is represented in the record?
JL: It’s all of those things. It’s not 1 thing. It’s life. It’s work. Life mirrors operate versa. I don’t understand. But it couldn’t since you don ’ t split up possibly only be a breakup album and then nothing happens. It all happens at once. People love a breakup album and I think it can stand as one but it is about death, rebirth and a rebound. Thinking of a separation as an end is a misstep, for me. It was a start.
303: I’m sure you get a good deal of folks that come up to you and tell you how your songs are so personal to them. That must be its own kind of experience — if something is so highly personal and then all of a sudden it becomes everybody else’s story.
JL: Yeah! Plus it s weird reason I don’t find myself. I’m producing out of my love and walking through my life and suffering or anything. But when folks come up to me, I’m kind of like, “What? Really? ” That was my perception. And it s your sense.
303: You’re known for having a fantastic connection with your audience — sometimes it seems like you’re singing to only 1 person in a room. Is that? Or is it casual?
JL: No. I mean, you catch eyes and it s in where you stop, casual, but I don’t think any of it’s accidental. It’s an exchange of energy when you’re playing a show, making an experience that people feel. So I’m not looking to check out on stage. I check out enough in my own life, but I want to connect on stage. Some nights I feel shy and to look at someone in the eyes is almost too romantic, so I kind of look over individuals ’s heads. But I love to connect and I like to feel what people are currently experiencing. When people are on their telephones experiencing it through their 16, I don ’ t mind. I think it s really meta.
303: Yeah, I don’t think a great deal of artists make direct eye contact like this since it’s really personal and in some ways a brave thing to do — particularly when you’re singing about something which ’s so romantic.
JL: Yeah it s like breaking the fourth wall… That is why [my band] Nice As Fuck played on the ground. We wanted to be on exactly the exact same level as the listeners since we re all in it together. I can’t play on the ground, perhaps I could, that would be amazing. Those are the most fun shows I’ve ever playedwith. With people where I was an inch from individuals ’s faces. It was insane. It was almost too much energy. By the end of this, I was like, whoa, that was intense. Because it’s confrontational. I’m like fucking with people a little bit.
303: I’ve read when you ’ re creating music in the studio you like a small amount of tension and a little confrontation. Can you elaborate on that a bit?
JL: Well, I don’t think it s a necessity, but you can get complacent with your body chemistry and get idle. Breathing or doing or running round the building something that agitates you, I think your adrenaline for performance kind of heightens. I heard a rumor about The White Stripes they had to have a rehearsal room backstage and they would play the set with each other before going on stage. So they’re out there and they’re warm.
303: What are your rituals before you go on stage?
JL: I’ve been getting makeup and my hair done on my tour, that is the first time I’ve ever done that. I’ve always done my own cosmetics, which looks like real makeup. So that’s been something which ’s so nice. I’ve always been DIY. Like I can do it myself. I’d do my own cat eye, you know? But after having [my makeup artist] do this for me, I was like, I want a fucking cat eye every night. I can go out and be like a superhero. I have my armor so I crush and can go. It sucks when your hair is curled and you’ve done your makeup badly and you’re standing in front of 500 people. You’re like I wish I had a cat eye.
303: You’ve played with around Colorado. What was your first show like in Denver? Or a memorable one?
JL: Oh Gosh. I can’t recall the first one, but I played in Denver a million times. The tiniest of places Red Rocks opening up for Beck. I will say that every show I played in Denver — such as in Colorado like in Telluride, where I can’t fucking breathe — the peeps are there and it’s always been a place where I feel like I link.
303: At Red Rocks — you sang a cover of “Harvest Moon” under an harvest moon with Beck that made national headlines. Did you plan that? Or do you sing that song on every stop?
JL: No, that one was my telephone since it was a harvest moon and since he likes to do covers. And honestly doing covers is my biggest fear as a musician. I’m scared of people’s tunes. I didn’t learn how to play music so every time I tour with Beck I stress out like, “ allow ’ s do a cover so hard because he ’ s. ” But it was enjoyable. And what a beautiful fucking song.
Jenny Lewis in Red Rocks opening for Beck at 2018. Photo by Meg O’Neill.
303: That’s interesting because your parent used to do covers in Las Vegas as an act along with your sister sings covers bars. So it runs in your family, correct?
JL: Yes. And that’s why I’ve rebelled against it since I’m a writer and I just have always written songs. I have so much to say I don’t need to say people’s [words]. And I understand that’s kind of immature and it s not that I don’t like to do covers I just am a little bit afraid of them. But I also need to play my own tunes.
303: And that kind of goes back to the subject of autonomy in your music
JL: I know! And I feel like people give me shit for not wanting to do covers and it s like, don’t you want me to do something that I love? Is that self-centered, as an artist, to only need to do your own fucking songs? Perhaps I am just lazy [sighs]
303: Going back to your album. I read because you don ’ t receive cell service that you have a ton of landline telephones in your house. It’s also the name and vision of your record, On The Line so is there any significance with these phones beyond that?
JL: Well that’s how I communicate. This ’s why I had to put you before because I am on my [landline ]. And “On the line” has many meanings, but it’s a literal thing. When I’m home I must speak on the landline. So it just sort of worked out. I was like, oh, I want phones for my stage show. And I looked I was like, great, I already have 12 old school phones so it all kind of just came .
303: How do you come about finding the phones?
JL: I thrift, eBay “ antique-mall and them ” them. I go to every mall in every town and I’m on the lookout. I’m like a collector of weird and shit.
303: Is there any like particular landline that is truly special to you?
JL: Well they on the stage. The neon light up telephones, those are my faves. There’s two on my piano and one on this heart riser that I stand on. And it actually accepts phone calls! You may call me from the monitor desk. So I played a show and Britt Daniel from Spoon called me. I was like, “Oh my god! Britt do you need to come up and sing a song? ”
303: Do you think you’ll ever accept any phone calls from the stage?
JL: Yes, I was supposed to accept one in Charleston from Bill Murray, but we ran out of time. It was my biggest regret of our last tour. I was like, fuck! But he’ll call some time.
303: Talking about design and your record cover, it s interesting for the previous two you don’t reveal your face. Is there a reason for that?
JL: Going back to the superhero costume. Like this cover is truly designed so you can put your head on a body that is different, I feel. It’s just like a paper doll. And therefore it s a set of outfits that embody a period of a feeling and time. I get dressed daily and I’m like, how do I feel? What color do I feel today? Do I need to introduce the world with myself? It’s like really significant to me. Presentation. So On The Line is a continuation of The Voyager and people are bookends. You know, two chapters. So we’ll see what happens for the next one.
303: Your album cover for On the Line also ended up being a type of homage to your mother because she wore the kind of outfits when she was singing in Vegas and has an mole on her chest. But that was totally accidental, right?
JL: Yeah! Can you believe? It found me. I didn’t find it. It came to me and it s really beautiful. It’s bizarre. I think you can be kind of stifled by overthinking. It’s clear to me when it’s the cover, I’m like, oh, there it is. It is seen by me. It’s the only cover. There are no other choices.
303: And only later you realized it had this hidden meaning
JL: Totally. And that’s life. There’so much subtext. There are subtweets. I enjoy subtweeting.
Album cover for “On The Line. ” Photo by Autumn de Wilde.
303: Who are you subtweeting right now? Or what’s your subtext subtweet?
JL: Well like a outreach that is romantic, but in like a way, you understand? It’s directed at one person and they ’ re like and your girlfriends will call you out on and you and your girlfriends know , “who’s for? ” It’s like, “get out of here! ” Mind your own beeswax.
303: The cover and colours of this album also have a special meaning because when you’re making the transition out of your breakup, you painted your house a special pink and it appears that pink has made its way into the album together with a certain blue. Tell me a little bit more about the importance of color on this record. What does it mean to you?
JL: Color blocking is quite important to me before a record cycle and has been back to The Execution Of All Things. I remember I was like, peach is the color and everybody “ Peach? We’re not wearing cherry. ” So I was like, “Okay I’ll wear peach then. ” So it helps me focus. It just simplifies it. And I think there so much power with color. You don’t have to stay a lot. 1 color can be so much. So The Voyager was the rainbow, every color.
But again, blue and pink — so these are the colours we picked. I was speaking to a buddy of mine yesterday and she was saying her child goes to a school that ’ s really advanced and gender neutral and a charter school that was trendy and the children aren. And I was like that’s my colours! But it’s gender neutral because it’s both but when I sing “Just One of The Guys” every night [with all the lyrics] “I’m just another lady with no baby” I realized it’s just like a fucking baby shower. I’m like throwing a baby shower every night and then I play that song [laughs]. So color has color expresses, mood. Additionally, a color looks really great when you’re being photographed by the crowd every night — that I love sourcing the photographs that people take.
303: What’s your favorite color?
JL: Peach [laughs]
303: Why peach?
JL: I don’t understand. Iloved peach for some reason since I’m kind of like a cherry. That’s my soul fruit. I’m like a squirrel and a cherry in a Honda Accord.
303: [laughs] That is great.
Jenny Lewis plays the Ogden Theatre on Thursday, May 16. Tickets are accessible via Axs.
Jenny Lewis in her signature color. Photo by Autumn de Wilde.
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